The View from Independence Square
by Jennifer Ginsburg
During my summer in Kiev I worked with Tanya Illyash at the Science and Technology Center in Ukraine. We became good friends, and I’ve been in touch with her since the protests started in November 2013. She hoped to see Ukraine move closer towards European integration, and her answers are indicative of the part of the Ukrainian population that wanted Yanukovych to sign the trade agreement and showed up in Independence Square when he did not. Her answers are from February 27, 2014, after Yanukovych left Ukraine but before Russia moved troops into the Crimea.
Jennifer Ginsburg: I know you were hoping Yanukovych would sign the EU’s Association Agreement in November. How do you think the agreement would have helped Ukraine?
Tanya Illyash: It was not an Association Agreement; it was a Trade Agreement that would have set up a free trade zone and joint market with Europe. The Trade Agreement would be the first step toward signing an Association Agreement. That is the first reason I was hoping Yanukovych would sign the agreement. Ukraine is corrupt and this is our biggest challenge. In order to be a member of the EU we need to get rid of corruption and my hope was that Europe could guide us with this issue. There are so many benefits of being part of the EU in the long run. As you may know, Russia is trying to influence the situation here, and it is not a secret that Russia wants to control Ukraine. I believe if Ukraine is part of the EU, the EU can help Ukraine to protect our borders from Russia.
JG: Were you surprised when he did not sign the agreement? Why do you think he did not sign?
TI: Frankly speaking, I was really hoping he would sign the Agreement, because he has promised to over the last two years. Moreover, Ukraine received over $20 million of technical assistance from Europe in order to improve our legislation on the way to signing an Association Agreement in the long run. To say that I was surprised that Yanukovych did not sign the agreement is to say nothing! I was shocked! I could not believe my ears. I watched the news clip a second time because I thought that I probably misunderstood the video the first time.Why did he do this? Maybe because he realized that when working with Europe, you must work transparently and you must report how money is spent. Maybe there was pressure from Putin, no one is sure, but I know that it is not required by Putin to report on how money is spent (I am talking about the loan that Yanukovych took from Russia).
JG: Why do you think European integration would be better for Ukraine than joining Russia’s Eurasian Union?
TI: I think I have answered this question partially in previous questions. Europe has high standard of living; there is democracy, and there is no corruption. This is what I want for my country. By the way, the European market is much bigger compared to the Eurasian Union’s market. I do not see any benefits in joining the Eurasian Union. This Union was created artificially by Putin and he is trying to create the Soviet Union again.
JG: What was it like to visit Maidan (Independence Square)? What did you do there? What stood out the most?
TI: Maidan was not the same every day. I was there when it was peaceful and it was calm. There was a very nice atmosphere and I would say that only the best Ukrainians were there. People were very polite and friendly and open. I also was there when there was fighting with the riot police. I went because there were injured people and I heard they needed medicine. I was very afraid to go, because nobody knew what could happen, but I could not just stay at home and watch the events unfold on the television. So I bought medicine that was needed for the injured and some pastries and went there. That day there were fights at Grushevsky Street which is one block from Maidan. Frankly speaking, initially I thought I would give the medicine at Maidan, but I was told that they needed medicine at Grushevskogo. So I decided to go there. I was really frightened, especially because the hospital was very close to the fighting. On my way to the hospital stun grenade fell close to me, but I was surprised that this did not stop me. Afterwards I became braver and I ran to the hospital. I saw not only young men there, but also pensioners. I was really surprised to see old people there. Our government at that time called the protesters, our patriots, fascists but after I saw old people there, I though what a bad government they are if even old people go and help the protesters to fight. Those were very emotional and hard days. I will never forget eyes of the people at Grushevskogo. I did not talk to people those days, there was no time to talk, but you look at their eyes and you understand each other… You understand that you share the same values, you care about your country, and you are ready to fight against the regime for a better future.
I would like to add that the protesters fought not only for their own lives, but for the lives of other people. I know many successful people who were at Maidan. They have good salaries, but they want better lives for other Ukrainians.
There were so many ways to volunteer for Maidan, One could make sandwiches or sort food, deliver medicine and food, work in a call center, to be a guard. I made sandwiches at Maidan and then a friend and I distributed them to people at Grushevskogo. Later I found out that in a church close to where I live is a logistics center for Maidan. People bring food and medicine there, volunteers make sandwiches and deliver food and medicine to Maidan and hospitals. I made sandwiches and sorted food there. Another day I took medicine from them and delivered it to one of the hospitals, but it appeared that the hospital was full of volunteers. There were about 200 people at the entrance of the hospital. I was told that they do not need medicine or food anymore. I was told that volunteers were needed in the other hospital. I was so impressed how great our Kyivites are, I have never seen such a solidarity. By the way, a majority of volunteers in the hospitals were ladies, because they were afraid to go to Maidan, because there were snipers at Maidan that day.
JG: One of the big developments was the release of Yulia Tymoshenko, former Prime Minister. What do you think of her and her imprisonment? Would you support her if she ran for president?
TI: It is true that this is a big development, because she was imprisoned unfairly. At the same time, I would say, that the majority does not support her, because when she was working with Pavlo Lazarenko, our former prime minister, they were stealing a lot of money. He was even imprisoned in the U.S.. Ukrainians want to change the country, we do not want to see old politicians any more, we do not trust them. Personally I hope Yulia Tymoshenko will not run for president.
JG: What do you think will happen to Yanukovych? Did you ever support him?
TI: I have never supported Yanukovych. He was imprisoned twice. How a thief can be a President? Moreover, Yanukovych never attended university and people say he bought a diploma. Now there is an arrest warrant out for him. People say he is in Russia now. I do not know what will happened to him, but he should be imprisoned.
JG: Do you think there is still the danger that Ukraine might split in half?
TI: I hope it will not happen, but there is a risk. It will be a tragedy, because we are one country and one nation.
JG: What do you think would be the best future course for Ukraine now?
TI: Today we have a new government, and I believe this government is much better that previous one. Still we have some politicians in the government, but at the same time, we have real professionals and activists from Maidan. I do hope our new government will stabilize the situation. We will have Presidential elections in May and we do hope to have elections for the parliament in October. The best future course for Ukraine is to get rid of corruption. Ukraine is a great country and a great nation (I am proud to be Ukrainian) and we can have a decent future without corruption. Our course is already announced - it is integration with EU.
JG: Do you think Europe will provide financial assistance to Ukraine? What might happen if they don’t?
TI: I am sure we will get support from IMF and from Europe. Today I even heard that Russia wants to help us. If anyone asks me, I would say that I do not need Russian help.
by Jennifer Ginsburg
During my summer in Kiev I worked with Tanya Illyash at the Science and Technology Center in Ukraine. We became good friends, and I’ve been in touch with her since the protests started in November 2013. She hoped to see Ukraine move closer towards European integration, and her answers are indicative of the part of the Ukrainian population that wanted Yanukovych to sign the trade agreement and showed up in Independence Square when he did not. Her answers are from February 27, 2014, after Yanukovych left Ukraine but before Russia moved troops into the Crimea.
Jennifer Ginsburg: I know you were hoping Yanukovych would sign the EU’s Association Agreement in November. How do you think the agreement would have helped Ukraine?
Tanya Illyash: It was not an Association Agreement; it was a Trade Agreement that would have set up a free trade zone and joint market with Europe. The Trade Agreement would be the first step toward signing an Association Agreement. That is the first reason I was hoping Yanukovych would sign the agreement. Ukraine is corrupt and this is our biggest challenge. In order to be a member of the EU we need to get rid of corruption and my hope was that Europe could guide us with this issue. There are so many benefits of being part of the EU in the long run. As you may know, Russia is trying to influence the situation here, and it is not a secret that Russia wants to control Ukraine. I believe if Ukraine is part of the EU, the EU can help Ukraine to protect our borders from Russia.
JG: Were you surprised when he did not sign the agreement? Why do you think he did not sign?
TI: Frankly speaking, I was really hoping he would sign the Agreement, because he has promised to over the last two years. Moreover, Ukraine received over $20 million of technical assistance from Europe in order to improve our legislation on the way to signing an Association Agreement in the long run. To say that I was surprised that Yanukovych did not sign the agreement is to say nothing! I was shocked! I could not believe my ears. I watched the news clip a second time because I thought that I probably misunderstood the video the first time.Why did he do this? Maybe because he realized that when working with Europe, you must work transparently and you must report how money is spent. Maybe there was pressure from Putin, no one is sure, but I know that it is not required by Putin to report on how money is spent (I am talking about the loan that Yanukovych took from Russia).
JG: Why do you think European integration would be better for Ukraine than joining Russia’s Eurasian Union?
TI: I think I have answered this question partially in previous questions. Europe has high standard of living; there is democracy, and there is no corruption. This is what I want for my country. By the way, the European market is much bigger compared to the Eurasian Union’s market. I do not see any benefits in joining the Eurasian Union. This Union was created artificially by Putin and he is trying to create the Soviet Union again.
JG: What was it like to visit Maidan (Independence Square)? What did you do there? What stood out the most?
TI: Maidan was not the same every day. I was there when it was peaceful and it was calm. There was a very nice atmosphere and I would say that only the best Ukrainians were there. People were very polite and friendly and open. I also was there when there was fighting with the riot police. I went because there were injured people and I heard they needed medicine. I was very afraid to go, because nobody knew what could happen, but I could not just stay at home and watch the events unfold on the television. So I bought medicine that was needed for the injured and some pastries and went there. That day there were fights at Grushevsky Street which is one block from Maidan. Frankly speaking, initially I thought I would give the medicine at Maidan, but I was told that they needed medicine at Grushevskogo. So I decided to go there. I was really frightened, especially because the hospital was very close to the fighting. On my way to the hospital stun grenade fell close to me, but I was surprised that this did not stop me. Afterwards I became braver and I ran to the hospital. I saw not only young men there, but also pensioners. I was really surprised to see old people there. Our government at that time called the protesters, our patriots, fascists but after I saw old people there, I though what a bad government they are if even old people go and help the protesters to fight. Those were very emotional and hard days. I will never forget eyes of the people at Grushevskogo. I did not talk to people those days, there was no time to talk, but you look at their eyes and you understand each other… You understand that you share the same values, you care about your country, and you are ready to fight against the regime for a better future.
I would like to add that the protesters fought not only for their own lives, but for the lives of other people. I know many successful people who were at Maidan. They have good salaries, but they want better lives for other Ukrainians.
There were so many ways to volunteer for Maidan, One could make sandwiches or sort food, deliver medicine and food, work in a call center, to be a guard. I made sandwiches at Maidan and then a friend and I distributed them to people at Grushevskogo. Later I found out that in a church close to where I live is a logistics center for Maidan. People bring food and medicine there, volunteers make sandwiches and deliver food and medicine to Maidan and hospitals. I made sandwiches and sorted food there. Another day I took medicine from them and delivered it to one of the hospitals, but it appeared that the hospital was full of volunteers. There were about 200 people at the entrance of the hospital. I was told that they do not need medicine or food anymore. I was told that volunteers were needed in the other hospital. I was so impressed how great our Kyivites are, I have never seen such a solidarity. By the way, a majority of volunteers in the hospitals were ladies, because they were afraid to go to Maidan, because there were snipers at Maidan that day.
JG: One of the big developments was the release of Yulia Tymoshenko, former Prime Minister. What do you think of her and her imprisonment? Would you support her if she ran for president?
TI: It is true that this is a big development, because she was imprisoned unfairly. At the same time, I would say, that the majority does not support her, because when she was working with Pavlo Lazarenko, our former prime minister, they were stealing a lot of money. He was even imprisoned in the U.S.. Ukrainians want to change the country, we do not want to see old politicians any more, we do not trust them. Personally I hope Yulia Tymoshenko will not run for president.
JG: What do you think will happen to Yanukovych? Did you ever support him?
TI: I have never supported Yanukovych. He was imprisoned twice. How a thief can be a President? Moreover, Yanukovych never attended university and people say he bought a diploma. Now there is an arrest warrant out for him. People say he is in Russia now. I do not know what will happened to him, but he should be imprisoned.
JG: Do you think there is still the danger that Ukraine might split in half?
TI: I hope it will not happen, but there is a risk. It will be a tragedy, because we are one country and one nation.
JG: What do you think would be the best future course for Ukraine now?
TI: Today we have a new government, and I believe this government is much better that previous one. Still we have some politicians in the government, but at the same time, we have real professionals and activists from Maidan. I do hope our new government will stabilize the situation. We will have Presidential elections in May and we do hope to have elections for the parliament in October. The best future course for Ukraine is to get rid of corruption. Ukraine is a great country and a great nation (I am proud to be Ukrainian) and we can have a decent future without corruption. Our course is already announced - it is integration with EU.
JG: Do you think Europe will provide financial assistance to Ukraine? What might happen if they don’t?
TI: I am sure we will get support from IMF and from Europe. Today I even heard that Russia wants to help us. If anyone asks me, I would say that I do not need Russian help.
